What to Wear Kayaking in 60 Degrees?

Kayaking is near and dear to my heart (after all, this whole site is a labor of love) but if you’re kayaking in 60 degree weather, you’re not just worrying about the air temperature but also what temperature the water is.

When the temperature is chilly, it’s essential to dress appropriately to ensure you remain comfortable and safe during your kayaking adventure. I learned this lesson quickly when I went out kayaking in the winter months right here in San Diego. Never again, brrr!

What to Wear Kayaking in Crisp, 60 Degree Weather

This article is the ultimate guide to dressing right as you hit the crisp 60 degree waters!

#1. Start with a Wetsuit or a Drysuit

rain coming down unexpectedly while kayaking on the ocean

Wetsuits are an excellent choice for kayaking in cold water. They not only keep you warm but also protect you from abrasions in water. A full wetsuit, booties, and gloves work perfectly for cold water kayaking. If you don’t have a wetsuit, you can rent one from a local kayak outfitter.

Alternatively, I suggest you opt for a drysuit which would be a better option. A drysuit keeps water from entering your clothing and is designed to help maintain body temperature in cold weather.

It usually comes with waterproof gaskets at the wrists and neck and thick latex socks to keep your feet warm. However, bear in mind that drysuits are more expensive than wetsuits.

#2. Layer Up

Layering is essential when going for kayaking in low temperatures. Different layers help create a buffer between your body and the elements outside.

Start with thermal underwear, then add a mid-layer like a fleece. A waterproof jacket or a dry suit, as mentioned earlier, is also an excellent option for an outer layer.

#3. Footwear

Ohhh, this is a tough one. The first time I didn’t take this advice to heart and laughed it off was the only time I didn’t wear proper footwear while out on a kayak in 60 degree temperature!

Cold temperatures can make your feet numb which can affect your balance on the kayak. To prevent this, ensure you wear warm socks and waterproof shoes or boots to keep your feet dry. Wet feet can lead to hypothermia, so it’s essential to keep them dry.

#4. Headgear and Gloves

Kayaking in cold weather means your extremities like your ears and hands are highly vulnerable to the cold. Wearing a beanie or a balaclava will keep your ears warm.

Lastly, gloves or mittens will keep your fingers warm, enabling you to grip the paddle comfortably.

#5. Choose Synthetic Fabrics

If you don’t have a wetsuit or a drysuit, synthetic fabrics can help keep you warm and dry while kayaking in cold weather.

Avoid cotton as it retains moisture, making it harder for you to retain heat. Dry clothes are more comfortable and will help keep you warm while you paddle.

#6. Gloves

Choose materials that provide insulation without bulkiness. Wool is a great choice as it keeps you warm even when wet, so it’s ideal if you’re likely to be splashed in cold water while kayaking.

Is It Safe to Kayak in 60 Degree Water?

Yes, it is safe to kayak in 60-degree water provided that you are equipped with the appropriate gear and follow safety guidelines.

Frankly, hypothermia is a huge concern in such conditions if you are not properly dressed, but with the right layers, a wetsuit or drysuit, and sensible precautions, you can comfortably and safely enjoy kayaking.

I always strongly suggest to check the weather conditions before you set out and ensure you have all the necessary equipment. Safety should be a priority when kayaking, regardless of the temperature, but due to the serious concern of hypothermia, sa

Is 65 Too Cold to Kayak?

No, 65 is not too cold to kayak. However, as with any water activity, it’s crucial to dress appropriately.

In this temperature range, it may be comfortable to wear lighter layers but it’s crucial to have a drysuit or wetsuit on especially if the water is cooler.

Remember this part: it’s not just the air temperature you need to consider, but also the water temperature and wind chill. Always prioritize safety and ensure you’re well-prepared before heading out on your kayaking adventure.

Is It Safe to Wear Shorts in 60 Degree Weather?

While it’s not unsafe to wear shorts in 60-degree weather, your comfort level will greatly depend on your tolerance to the cold and the type of activity you’re participating in.

In the context of kayaking, however, wearing shorts might not be the best choice. Even if the air temperature feels comfortable, the water temperature can be much colder.

Getting wet from paddling or from water splashes could potentially lead to hypothermia if not appropriately dressed.

That’s why I strongly advise to take a wet or dry suit into consideration: it’s easy to get super cold once cold water gets on you or you fall into the water by mistake.

Summary

There you go: these are all the tips I have you to dress well and to be prepared for kayaking in 60-65 degree weather.

With the right apparel, you can surely make your kayaking experience enjoyable and fun! And with the wrong apparel, a kayaking trip can turn dangerous in a moment’s notice, so please go well prepared and well dressed!

Are Fishing Kayaks Stable?

If you’re new to the world of kayak fishing, you may be wondering if fishing kayaks are stable enough to be safe out on the water.

Perhaps you love fishing and are wondering if fishing from a kayak is safe. Having owned a couple fishing kayaks over the years, I can share a lot about these kayaks and give you a good perspective on them.

So, let’s get things started!

Are Fishing Kayaks Safe and Stable?

Yes, fishing kayaks are generally stable enough to keep you safe while you fish.

However, there are several factors that determine just how stable a fishing kayak will be.

Factor #1: Width of Kayak

Hobie 14

For example, the most important factor is the width of the kayak. The wider the kayak, the more stable it will be. Fishing kayaks are typically wider than other types of kayaks which is one of the reasons they are so popular among anglers.

Factor #2: Hull Design

Another factor that contributes to the stability of a fishing kayak is the design of the hull. Some kayaks have a flat bottom, while others have a V-shaped bottom that provides more stability.

The ones that I love and prefer have a pontoon-style hull which provides even more stability and makes them ideal for standing up and casting.

Factor #3: Size and Weight Capacity

Pescador In Action

I know from experience that the size and weight capacity of a fishing kayak also play a role in its stability.

If you’re a larger person or plan to carry a lot of gear with you while fishing, you’ll want to choose a kayak with a high weight capacity and larger size. This will ensure that the kayak remains stable even with extra weight on board.

Factor #4: Usage

Finally, the way you use the kayak can also impact its stability.

If you’re a beginner, I suggest you take your time and start out slow and steady. Don’t try to move around too quickly, and avoid sudden movements that could cause the kayak to tip over.

As you become more experienced, you can start to experiment with more advanced techniques and movements, but always prioritize safety first.

Do Fishing Kayaks Tip Easily?

The common concern about fishing kayaks tipping over is largely based on misconceptions. In fact, fishing kayaks are designed with stability in mind and do not easily tip over if used correctly.

As a rule of thumb, the wider the kayak, the harder it is to tip over. As explained earlier, this is because a wider kayak distributes the weight over a larger area, resulting in increased buoyancy and stability.

However, it’s important to note that no kayak is completely immune to tipping. Sudden, sharp movements, or standing up without proper balance may compromise the stability of the kayak.

Also, take into consideration water conditions: water conditions can significantly affect the kayak’s stability. Rough waters, waves, or strong currents can increase the risk of tipping. This is why I strongly suggest that you gain experience in calmer waters before tackling more challenging environments.

Are Fishing Kayaks More Stable than Canoes?

When it comes to stability, fishing kayaks and canoes both have their advantages.

Fishing kayaks are usually designed with wider hulls for better balance on the water, making them ideal for those who enjoy a serene, stable fishing experience. They also tend to sit lower in the water which can reduce the center of gravity and increase stability.

Now on the other hand, canoes can offer a larger area for movement and are more accommodating of additional gear or a second person. This can make them feel more stable, especially when paddling in calm waters.

But canoes do sit higher in the water and may feel less stable in rougher conditions.

They’re both very stable options but I prefer fishing kayaks over canoes because they are easier to paddle and I like that they are lower in the water.

Are Fishing Kayaks Hard to Flip?

a-fishing-kayak-ready-to-for-a-trip-with-a-fish-finder-setup

In my humble experience, fishing kayaks are generally designed to resist flipping but the ease or difficulty of flipping one will depend on various aspects like its design, the weight it’s carrying, the water conditions, and the behavior of the user, as I discussed above.

If you’re worried about your fishing kayak flipping, then look for a wide hull or a pontoon-style bottom. It’s much harder to flip kayaks designed with those aspects.

Again, for beginners, I recommend to start in calm waters and gradually build up to more challenging situations as confidence and skills improve. If you’re afraid of your kayak tipping, where a life jacket and buddy up with someone experienced.

Are Fishing Kayaks Harder to Paddle?

No, fishing kayaks are not inherently harder to paddle than other types of kayaks.

However, because of their wider design, which lends to stability, also results in a larger surface area in contact with the water, potentially increasing the resistance when paddling.

The difficulty in paddling can also be influenced by the weight of the gear onboard, the water current, and wind direction.

For this reason, certain fishing kayaks are outfitted with pedal systems, allowing anglers to propel themselves using their legs, freeing up their hands for fishing. This can make movement easier compared to traditional paddling.

If paddling is a concern, opt for a paddling kayak.

Last Words

I can definitely say that fishing kayaks are stable and safe enough to go out on the water. However, it’s equally important to choose a kayak that is the right size and weight capacity for your needs and to take your safety seriously.

How to Get in an Inflatable Kayak

If you’re new to the world of inflatable kayaks, it can be a little daunting figuring out how to get in.

With their buoyancy and flexibility, it can seem like you’ll never be able to get in without tipping over. The first few times I tried it with my Sea Eagle, it felt really tricky but fear not! By following these tips and tricks, you’ll be gliding along like a pro in no time.

Getting into an Inflatable Kayak

There are several ways to get into an inflatable kayak so go through each one of these, print them, and try them each a couple of times.

#1. The Island Method

When you’re ready to get in the kayak on the water, start by pulling up to a shallow area or island. Take your paddle and stick it perpendicular to the kayak, with the paddle blade resting on the shore or island.

Then use the paddle as a stabilizer to help you climb into the kayak. Place one hand on the paddle, and one hand on the kayak, and lift yourself in.

#2. The Butt Scoot

If you’re having trouble getting your legs in, try the butt scoot method. Sit down on the edge of the kayak and swing your legs inside. Then, use your hands to scoot your butt further into the kayak until you’re comfortable.

Once you’re in, reach forward and grab onto the paddle to stabilize yourself.

#3. The Swim Method

If you happen to fall out of the kayak while you’re on the water, don’t panic. The swim method is an easy way to get back in.

Start by swimming to the back of the kayak and grab onto the side.

Then, use your legs to push yourself up and onto the back of the kayak. Once you’re stabilized, swing your legs inside and sit down.

#4. Remember: Practice Makes Perfect

Before you even get to the water, take a few minutes to practice getting in and out of your kayak on land. This will help build your confidence and allow you to figure out the best way to enter the kayak.

Sit down on the ground next to your kayak, with your legs inside. Use your hands to grab onto the sides of the kayak and wiggle your way in.

Practice different angles and methods to figure out what works best for you.

#5. Be Confident and Have Fun

The most important thing when getting in an inflatable kayak is to be confident and have fun!

Don’t worry if you get a little wet or wobbly at first – everyone starts there. Inflatable kayaks are more buoyant so require more patience.

With practice and patience, you’ll soon be gliding along the water like a pro.

How Do I Get into My Inflatable Kayak from a Dock?

If you’re a beginner, I don’t advise you to get into your inflatable kayak from a dock. However, if you insist on learning, take each step slowly and keep your balance the best you can.

Getting into your inflatable kayak from a dock requires a slightly different approach. Start by placing your kayak parallel to the dock, ensuring that the dock is low enough for easy access into your kayak.

If it’s too high, you might want to look for a different launch point. Once your kayak is in position, sit down on the edge of the dock with your legs over the side and directly above the kayak.

Slowly lower yourself down into the kayak, maintaining a hold on the dock for stability. Swing your legs into the kayak one at a time, keeping your weight centered to prevent tipping. Once you’re seated comfortably, grab your paddle and push off from the dock.

How Do I Get into My Inflatable Kayak from the Beach?

Entering your inflatable kayak from a beach is fairly straightforward and super duper easy!

Begin by positioning your kayak perpendicular to the water’s edge, with the back end facing the water.

Ensure the kayak is stable, perhaps by weighting it down with your gear. Sit down at the back end of your kayak, with your legs pointing towards the bow (front).

Gradually slide yourself into the cockpit, bringing your legs inside. To avoid friction against the bottom, make sure the water is deep enough to float the kayak slightly. Finally, grab your paddle and start kayaking.

Always remember to maintain balance and move slowly to avoid tipping over.

Is It Hard to Get in and out of an inflatable kayak vs a hardshell kayak?

3 men carrying a kayak

Both inflatable and hardshell kayaks present their unique challenges when it comes to getting in and out.

However, due to their buoyancy and flexibility, inflatable kayaks can feel a bit unstable, especially for beginners. Their bottoms are softer, which means they can shift more under your weight as you’re trying to get in or out, potentially causing imbalance.

On the other hand, hardshell kayaks are more rigid and sturdy, providing a stable platform for entry and exit. However, they can be more challenging to climb into from water if you happen to capsize, due to their higher sides and weight.

What is the easiest spot a beginner should launch their inflatable kayak from?

For beginners, the easiest spot to launch an inflatable kayak is a sandy beach with a gentle slope and calm waters. This type of location allows for a smooth, controlled entry into the kayak, reducing the risk of tipping over.

Additionally, the soft sand can serve as a cushion in case of a fall. The gentle slope will let you gradually glide into the water once you’re seated in the kayak, while the calm waters will make your first few moments of paddling less daunting.

It’s also beneficial if the area has a shallow water depth for some distance from the shore, providing a safety net while you’re still getting the hang of balancing and maneuvering the kayak.

In Summary

Getting in an inflatable kayak may seem overwhelming at first, but with a little bit of practice and these tips and tricks, you’ll be a pro in no time.

Remember to start slowly, build your confidence, and have fun. Before you know it, you’ll be exploring new waterways and enjoying all the benefits of this versatile and exciting type of watercraft.

Being patient will go a long way here; trust me, this is coming from someone who wants to learn at the snap of a finger! If you want to learn how to get back in your kayak after you’ve fallen out, you might be interested in reading that article.

How to Get in a Kayak from Shore

Man, looking back at the first few times I got into the kayak and tried to start paddling, it brings back some hilarious memories.

The very first time I attempted this in a calm lake, I was so excited that when I pushed off and got in, the kayak flipped and well, everyone got a good laugh while I learned my first lesson.

With that said, I’ve got some solid tips to help you learn how to get in a kayak safely from the shoreline without making yourself the butt of jokes like I did the very first time I attempted this.

So, off we go paddling! PS. If you have an inflatable kayak you want to get in and out of, check out that specific article.

Tip #1: Start with a Stable Position

Before you even think about stepping into your kayak, it’s important to make sure it’s in a stable position. With an kayak, this can feel even trickier so make sure everything is ‘sturdy’.

Ideally, you’ll want to launch from a shoreline that’s flat, stable, and free of any major obstacles or obstructions that could trip you up. Take a moment to check the tide and weather conditions and make sure they’re suitable for kayaking.

Once you’ve found the perfect spot, lay your kayak parallel to the shore, and be sure to stabilize the bow and stern with rocks or sandbags if necessary and get in nice and steady.

Tip #2: Position Your Kayak Correctly

To make getting into your kayak easier, you’ll want to position it so that the cockpit (the area where you sit) is facing the water and you’re standing on the opposite side.

This will make it easier to slide into the cockpit and situate yourself properly once you’re seated. You can use the side of the kayak or the backrest for support as you sit down and it’s very important to take your time here and get comfortable.

Tip #3: Step into the Kayak Carefully

When you’re ready to step into the kayak, keep one foot on the shore and use the other foot to carefully step into the cockpit. You can use your hands for support by gripping the sides of the kayak or the cockpit rim.

Once you’re seated, slowly slide your feet into the cockpit and adjust your body weight until you feel comfortable and stable.

Tip #4: Launch from Deep Water

After you’re situated comfortably and securely in your kayak, it’s time to launch into deeper water.

Use your paddle to push off from the shore, and start paddling once you’re in deep enough to avoid running aground or hitting any obstacles.

Tip #5: Practice and Be Patience

Learning how to get into a kayak from the shore and launch with confidence takes practice and patience.

Don’t hesitate to ask for help from a more experienced kayaker or even take a class or guided tour to learn more.

With time and experience, you’ll master the techniques and be able to launch your kayak like a pro. Took me a dozen times before I could do it super easily but most people take to it within a handful of times.

How Do You Get into a Kayak From a Pier?

tired woman napping in her kayak

Getting into an kayak from a pier requires slightly different techniques compared to launching from the shoreline.

  1. Lowering the Kayak: Depending on the height of the pier, you may need to lower your kayak into the water using a rope. Make sure the kayak floats parallel to the pier and is secure before attempting to get in.
  2. Mounting the Kayak: Sit on the edge of the pier, swinging your legs over the side. Reach out and steady the kayak using the ropes or handles. Slowly lower yourself into the kayak, one leg at a time, maintaining your hold on the pier for balance.
  3. Positioning: Once seated, adjust your position and get comfortable. Ensure your feet are correctly placed on the footpegs and your back is against the seat before you let go of the pier.
  4. Pushing off: Lastly, use your paddle to gently push off from the pier and start your kayaking journey.

It sounds complicated but it isn’t. Make sure to take your time here and that you feel balanced and safe getting in.

What is the Easiest Place to Get into a Kayak as a Beginner?

For beginners, the easiest place to get into a kayak is a calm and shallow body of water, preferably a small lake or pond. Even then, be steady and careful as I didn’t have a good core so it was hard for me to get in and balance myself. Most people do great in calm water.

These water bodies typically have little to no current, which makes it easier to maintain control of the kayak while you get in. Also, a sandy or pebbly shoreline is preferable over a steep or rocky one, as it provides a stable surface for launching. It’s also a good idea to practice near a dock or pier where you can easily get help if needed.

How do Seniors Get in and Out of a Kayak?

a bigger couple kayaking together comfortably

For seniors, getting in and out of a kayak can be a bit more challenging, but with the right approach, it can be done safely and comfortably.

  1. Support: First, it’s vital to have a sturdy support like a dock or a helper nearby. This support will provide stability as you get in and out of the kayak.
  2. Use of Kayak Dock: A kayak dock with a low step is ideal, allowing seniors to step directly into the kayak without having to lower themselves too far. These docks often have assist bars that can be held onto for additional support.
  3. Dry Launch: If using a shoreline, a dry launch site, where the kayak can be placed on a level surface and slid into the water once the paddler is seated, is beneficial.
  4. Kayak Entry and Exit Aid: There are tools available like the kayak entry and exit aid, a device that hooks onto the side of the kayak and provides a sturdy handle to hold onto.
  5. Sit-On-Top Kayaks: Elderly individuals may find sit-on-top kayaks to be easier to access than sit-in models. These kayaks can be stepped into rather than having to lower oneself into a cockpit.
  6. Assistance: Lastly, having a companion to help steady the kayak and offer a hand when needed can be invaluable.

In Summary

If you’re a beginner, getting in and out of a kayak can seem like a daunting, difficult task. However, the more you practice, the more your confidence will develop and you’ll be at easy with this in no time. To learn how to get back into a kayak once you’ve fallen out, you’ll want to read that particular article.

Remember, the key is to take your time, stay focused, and practice, practice, practice.

Sea Eagle FastTrack 385 vs 465: Which One is Better?

If you’re in the market for a compact and lightweight kayak, it’s likely that the Sea Eagle FastTrack 385 and 465 have entered your radar.

But with two options available, you might be wondering which one is right for you. Both these kayaks are pretty awesome but one has a slight edge. In this article, I will be comparing both Sea Eagle models and discussing each one’s nuisance. Here we go.

What are Sea Eagle FastTrack Kayaks Designed For?

Carrying a Sea Eagle inflatable kayak

Sea Eagle FastTrack kayaks are a line of kayks designed for adventure seekers who value portability and performance. The FastTrack models are ideal for a range of water conditions, including calm lakes, meandering rivers, and even choppy seas, thanks to their robust construction and streamlined design.

The FastTrack series particularly stands out for its excellent stability and easy maneuverability, making it an excellent choice for both novices and experienced paddlers.

Whether you’re planning a leisurely paddle, an exciting whitewater adventure, or a multi-day expedition, Sea Eagle FastTrack Kayaks are built to handle it. And that’s what so damn impressive about them!

FastTrack 385 vs 465: Which One is the Better Kayak?

Now that we know why they’re called FastTrack, let’s get into the nitty gritty details:

#1. Size and Weight

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SE FastTrack 385

Editor's choice for #1 Sea Eagle FastTrack kayak. It's super easy to navigate, tracks well, has comfortable seating, and can seat three people.

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The Sea Eagle FastTrack 385 measures 12′ 6″ and weighs 35 pounds while the Sea Eagle FastTrack 465 measures 15′ and weighs 44 pounds. This means that the 465 is longer and heavier than the 385.

If portability and storage space are a concern, the 385 will be easier to handle.

However, if you’re looking for more space to store your gear or want to bring a friend or pet along for the ride, the 465 might be a better fit.

#2. Capacity

When it comes to capacity, the Sea Eagle FastTrack 385 can hold up to 3 adults or 635 pounds (which is amazing in itself!) while the Sea Eagle FastTrack 465 can hold up to 4 adults or 795 pounds.

This means that the 465 has a higher weight capacity and can accommodate more people. However, keep in mind that the added weight and size can make it more difficult to paddle solo so entertain the 465 if you’ll be paddling with other folks.

#3. Performance

Both the Sea Eagle FastTrack 385 and 465 have similar features when it comes to performance such as a sleek design, reinforced air chambers, and a high-pressure drop stitch floor.

However, the longer length of the 465 may make it more stable in choppy waters and give it a slight advantage in speed. That being said, the 385 is still a fast and nimble kayak.

When it comes to the 385, I find it easy to paddle with 1-3 people but the 465 was hard to paddle with two people or less, unfortunately, but again, it’s designed for multiple people to paddle together.

#4. Price

The Sea Eagle FastTrack 385 has a price tag of around $999 while the Sea Eagle FastTrack 465 is priced around $1,249.

While the 465 offers more space and capacity, it’s also considerably more expensive. If you’re on a budget, the 385 might be a better option.

Summary of Main Differences Between the 385 vs the 465

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Sea Eagle 465FT Fasttrack
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The main differences between the Sea Eagle FastTrack 385 vs 465 are size, weight, capacity, and price. The 385 is smaller and lighter, making it more portable and easier to store. It also has a lower capacity (635 pounds) than the 465 (795 pounds).

On the other hand, the 465 has a longer length which gives it an advantage when it comes to stability and speed.

However, this kayak is also more expensive than the 385 and can be difficult to paddle solo due to its extra weight.

Which One Is Better for Overnight Camping on the River Bank?

If you’re planning to go camping on the river bank, the Sea Eagle FastTrack 465 might be a better choice. Its longer length and higher capacity make it well suited for multi-day expeditions. It also offers more room to store your gear and can accommodate up to four people.

On the other hand, if you’re looking for portability and easy storage, the 385 might be a more suitable option. Thanks to its smaller size and lower weight, it’s easier to transport and doesn’t take up as much space when deflated.

With the FastTrack 465, you have more room to pack supplies for multiple days or bring a few friends along and God knows that can a huge plus on those types of trips. I hardly do these types of trips but when I do, the FastTrack comes in super handy for this purpose.

Its longer design makes it more stable in choppy waters and slightly faster than the 385, but keep in mind that this kayak is heavier and can be difficult to paddle solo.

Which One Has the Better Seating for Hours of Kayaking?

Sea Eagle Razorlite on the water

When it comes to comfort for long hours of kayaking, both the Sea Eagle FastTrack 385 and 465 offer adjustable, high-back seats that provide excellent support but there is a slight difference in the seating experience between the two models.

The 385, being a bit smaller, has a more intimate seating arrangement which might be preferable for solo paddlers or couples who don’t mind being in close proximity.

The 465, on the other hand, offers a more spacious seating configuration that can be beneficial for those who prefer more personal space or are planning to kayak with a larger group.

It’s worth noting that both Sea Eagle models allow for the seats to be repositioned according to your preference, offering flexibility regardless of the model you choose.

I have to say that if you’ll be paddling with three people consistently, then the seating of the 465 will serve you a whole lot better. I have a bad back and I love the seating in the 465.

Which One Is the Better Kayak? Sea Eagle FastTrack 385 vs 465

When it comes to choosing between the Sea Eagle FastTrack 385 and 465, I find that the 385 tracks amazingly well while allowing me a comfortable seat along with paddling with a few friends.

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SE FastTrack 385

Editor's choice for #1 Sea Eagle FastTrack kayak. It's super easy to navigate, tracks well, has comfortable seating, and can seat three people.

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The only reason I’d consider investing in a 465 is if you love paddling with another person and your pet or 3-4 people. Then, it’s definitely worth the extra investment.

The Sea Eagle 385 takes the trophy.

If you are considering other models, you may want to check out our beastly coverage of the Sea Eagle 380x vs the 420x here.